Thursday, June 19, 2008

CROSS POLLINATION with P-DOG: TRAINING RACE SERIES DISCUSSION

Again, P-dog scooped me this week on a topic I had been thinking about posting.
Damn you P-dog!!! Here is a copy of the comment I made on the topic of training races:

Yes Andrew, Tuesdays are run poorly. Yes the courses are fun, much better than Seward in my opinion but they are not run well. All of these have happened more than once and they are gripes that I have heard from other riders, not just my typical whining about races around here:

1. Lap cards not being accurate. I was in a 2 man break last year for the majority of the race with a 1-3 field that was small. They gave us 1 to go 2 laps in a row. How hard is it to keep track of 2 guys? Again, the lap card mix up happened more than once.

2. The promoter telling us to keep track of how we finished to help with results. If I was paying $5 for the privilege of using the track, I am ok with that. Since I am paying you ($13 last year, $15 this year) that is your job. Use a camera, get it right.

3. The promoter frequently rings the bell for primes when it is obvious that 2 different fields are coming together on that lap. It happened again last Tuesday. He is not figuring out the re-entry trajectory of the space shuttle, just when would be a good time to ring a prime bell and not contribute to the confusion of one field catching another.

4. The promoter doesn't even take the time to get to know his customers. I know a rider who got 3rd overall in the series a few years ago. The promoter still does not know the rider's name.

5. Finally, and really this is the least of the transgressions: he gives little to nothing back in terms of some pay-back. Thursday night races cost the same amount, and on just about every Thursday there is the opportunity of winning at least most of your entry back for the night. The above mentioned rider who got 3rd overall in the Tuesday series got a multi-tool. When Doug Davis won the Seward series 2 years ago he won $300 and a fleece top. That and the fact that Thursdays are run well, finishes captured on film and the fact that the promoter knows just about everyone (and that most people can ride there) are the reasons why Thursdays are going strong and Tuesdays are not.

Bottom line: Once you reach a certain level of entry fee, along with that comes a certain level of expectation. Charging $15 every week for a training race reaches that level and the Thur series gives back proportionately, the Tues does not. There is a training series that has been going on in LA at the Rose Bowl for over 40 years. It is every Tuesday and Thursday night. There is no entry fee, no prizes, just a start time that everyone knows and a finish line. Sometimes this race has had over 150 riders in it and every time it is contested like the World Championships. That is what training races are all about. If there is a fee to use the course (Seward, SIR) then charge just enough to cover those expenses and put a little in the promoter's pocket to reward him for the effort. If you want to charge a bit more, give back some more effort and some green in return. Your customers will thank you and keep coming back.

13 comments:

P-Dog said...

Like riding without a helmet, this strikes me as a red hot topic my friend.

PNWBuckeye said...

Or calling yourself a professional cycling team in a press release when you are in fact an amateur team.

Andrew F Martin said...

When I won PR, I got some merchandise, but more importantly I got a season's pass the following year - 22 races @ $12 was $264. The year before I got 2nd and 1/2 a year pass. That's not that far off from Seward as far as payout for the season overall. Since they are having issues getting numbers, and cost/prizes is a gripe - how about making the Prime laps worth free entry the next week (don't use it - lose it)? I like having no money on the line for the finish so people are less apt to take a risk when it really doesn't matter.

The comments about the lap/bell/prime/field mixing stuff - you're right. Some of that is annoying, but it's a training race. I guess I just don't care that much.

Anonymous said...

Rory's fee and insurance went up as well last year because some D-bag decided to write the track owner and tell them how f'd up the escape route was.

Come on people!

I don't mind the extra cost. really though the drive has gotten SO time consuming. 2 years ago I could leave at a decnt time and show up in time for a good warm up. This year I need to take an extra hour off to catch a carpool down to barely make it in time.

Need something closer.... now.

Anonymous said...

Bring back the beef jerkey primes & maybe I'll come back.

justfivegrins said...

Several years back when the previous SIR promoter almost got us kicked out for good - Rory smoothed things over and we still had a Tuesday night race to go to.

He has also tried to get Juniors only racing which didn't pan out; & still promotes Women only racing (which moved to Tuesdays prior to the regular racing because separating it to Thursdays didn't pay the bills).

Prior to this year the numbers have dwindled on the other courses offered except the nights the "FLATS" are run. This year they all have suffered.

But it's no wonder that the "FLATS" are run 10 out of 23 races this year - pandering to the EZ crowd. With the escape route being used for both counter & clockwise nights more frequently than not - 8 of 13 times. Again because the "S" turn adds a degree of difficulty that keeps a lot of folks away on those nights that it's offered.

Whether it's the cost of gas, the slowing economy, the price of race entries, not enough time for the silly 2-wheeled thingy (too many kids to keep track of), lack of adequate prizes/primes, any combination of any or all the above, etc - I don't think it's for the lack of trying on Rory's part that PR's attendance is down. He's not the perfect promoter, it's not a perfect venue (prudog's working on that), but it's still a fun series.

Though I will agree that people will vote with their feet (er in this case wheels).

My Dad always taught me that something was worth what somebody else was willing to pay for it. So if you're still going to PR & paying, knowing in advance what you're getting in return; then you're getting what you paid for.

Anonymous said...

PNW... I gots nothing but respect for you dude... but I offer this up for you to chaw on. How much have you talked with Rory about your issues? I'm sure he'd love some volunteer help to do results and offer up some suggestions on payouts...

Just sayin'... There are cheaper sports to do... and bike racin' ain't one of them.

PNWBuckeye said...

My take after speaking with a number of riders that are not going at all or as frequently is that Rory finally crossed over the threshold of what people were willing to pay for the product that he was offering.

justfivegrins said...

Looks like somebody was listening.

Deanna says "We are going to try something new at Pacific Raceways starting this Tuesday (June 24). In each of the three groups (1/2/3, Masters and 4/5) we will have a payout equal to $1 per person entered for the evening. It will be given out to the top three finishers. An example would be, 50 people participants in a group, would be a $50 payout. First would get $25, second would get $15 and third would get $10, just three deep for this payout.

It is supposed to be nice tomorrow, so we hope to see you at Pacific Raceways."

Anonymous said...

Ohhhhh... SNAP! This was probably one of those times when working with the promoter would have been better than just bitching...

PNWBuckeye said...

Or they read blogs....

Anonymous said...

Here's a new slogan for our dear sport...

Cycling... Where Passive Aggressive Thrives! Come join the pack, we'll talk behind your back!

Beeyatch!

PNWBuckeye said...

Actually Curly, I have tried to talk with Rory and give some suggestions but he has given me the impression that he has no interest in anything I have to say. I have tried this for the past 3 years making some minor suggestions to no avail. The last two weeks I have tried to make a suggestion to him to combine some of his dwindling fields to make the racing more interesting and fun for the riders and his response is a flat "no, too hard to pick the results".

I am done.