WHAT PART OF PRO CYCLING TEAM AM I MISSING HERE?
A press release that appeared in Cyclingnews the other day:
Richmond gets new pro cycling team
Richmond, Virginia, USA, has become home to a new professional cycling team. Working in conjunction with the non-profit People Cycle, the team, previously named Team Natures Path, will be branded Richmond Pro Cycling fueled by Natures Path (RPC).
The team's approach has drawn many community contributors, helping to create a sustainable organization whose mission is based on individual and community development, as well race results. As team founder and manager Craig Dodson said, "The next generation's leaders need to start somewhere. This team is about building good people on the bike, and then using them to help build strong communities off the bike."
In addition to its community work, the team will be represented at more than 80 events, including the USA Crit Series. As one of the leading U.S. amateur squads since 2005, RPC has taken a calculated path to the pro ranks. Returning to the team will be rider-manager Craig Dodson, former kilo-National Champion and Pan-Am Games athlete Gerardo Castro, top-10 finisher at U.S. Elite nationals, Paul Ward. Adding to the roster this year are Jeff Buckles, Stephen DeLisle, Ryan Mele, and most notably, Esteban Jukich. With podium finishes at several NRC races across the U.S. and internationally, Jukich brings to the team added criterium and road muscle.
The team will officially kick off their 2008 season with a four-day team camp from March 20-23, in Richmond, VA. Unlike most teams, including many U.S. Pro Teams, RPC has a dedicated support system for riders, including health insurance, paid housing, and a medical staff.
Team Roster: Jeffery Buckles (US, 21), Gerardo Castro (UY, 29), Stephen Delisle (US, 19), Craig Dodson (US, 29), Esteban Jukich (UY, 25), Ryan Mele (US, 24), Paul Ward (US, 24).
Now here is the list of the registered 2008 UCI Continental teams in the US:
BPC
BISSELL PRO CYCLING
USA
COL
COLAVITA / SUTTER HOME PRESENTED BY COOKING LIGHT
USA
DLP
DLP RACING
USA
HNM
HEALTH NET PRESENTED BY MAXXIS
USA
JBC
JELLY BELLY CYCLING TEAM
USA
KBM
KELLY BENEFIT STRATEGIES / MEDIFAST
USA
RAP
RITE AID PRO CYCLING
USA
RRC
ROCK RACING
USA
SLP
SUCCESSFULLIVING.COM PRESENTED BY PARKPRE
USA
TT1
TEAM TYPE 1
USA
JIT
THE JITTERY JOE'S PRO CYCLING TEAM
USA
TPC
TIME PRO CYCLING
USA
AEG
TOSHIBA-SANTO PRO CYCLING PRESENTED BY HERBALIFE
USA
TUP
TOYOTA - UNITED PRO CYCLING TEAM
USA
Funny, I don't see this team listed. Maybe it is a Pro-Tour team. Is this guy kidding? I mean, does he not realize that there are guys like me just waiting to pounce on bullshit artists like this? A guy affiliated with this team came by a booth at Interbike 2 years ago with sponsorship packet in hand talking about what a kick-ass "Pro-Am" Cycling team they had. Pro-Am? He was calling his team "Pro-Am", at Interbike? I can see maybe using that type of language if you are trying to get sponsorship from your local business that does not know much about cycling, but talking like that at Interbike, and then sending that press release to Cyclingnews? Are you kidding me?
Tool.
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41 comments:
Tool is too nice. This guy is a straight out lier. Isnt it great for our sport to have unethical folks like this spewing BS to sponsors who have a legitimate interest in how the sport can be leveraged for their benefit??!! Someone really should call his bluff so that his sponsors know the type of character they are dealing with.
This is what I wrote to cycling news.
Dear Cycling News,
After reading today's news I just had to write in to ask.... what's the deal with everyone slapping the "pro" tag on their team name? (see "Richmond gets new pro cycling team") I believe that there are only 17 UCI teams registered in the USA. These teams are not "Pro". In fact they are by definition, according to both the UCI and USA Cycling web page, amateur teams. I belive these teams are defrauding the public and their sponsors. After reading today's news I felt compelled to visit the teams website. A quick call to the marketing department at the teams main sponsor confirmed my theory.... they didn't even realize what "product" they had been sold. They were shocked to here they were not actually sponsoring a "professional team". I have no doubt that these teams have good riders but adding the letters pro does not make you a professional team. Someone needs to put their foot down on this before we have Cat 5 Pro Team's, Junior Pro Team's, Masters Pro's Teams.
Chris "unPRO" Nelson
Richmond, VA
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/mar08/mar07news3
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/dec07/dec13news2
This Mr. Dodson is a not just a liar he is a crook. He is defrauding his sponsors by selling them a bogus product. It's people like him that are killing the sport. I live in VA and know that teams gets a healthy budget from Natures Path Corp. ... Yet most of it goes into his pocket and the riders on the team live like homeless people sleeping on other peoples floor.
The best part about it is that Mr. Dodson has an article, condeming this type of behavior in the current (April) issue of ROAD magazine.
It really makes me laugh.
This Mr. Dodson is a not just a liar he is a crook. He is defrauding his sponsors by selling them a bogus product. It's people like him that are killing the sport. I live in VA and know that teams gets a healthy budget from Natures Path Corp. ... Yet most of it goes into his pocket and the riders on the team live like homeless people sleeping on other peoples floor.
The best part about it is that Mr. Dodson has an article, condeming this type of behavior in the current (April) issue of ROAD magazine.
It really makes me laugh.
I've raced since 1977 and have never heard the term "pro-am" used in cycling. Superfluous marketing fluff and boasting is what this smacks of. Sure, Madison avenue may slurp this jargon up but it doesn't sell within the peleton. Wait! I think BMX may have used the term "pro-am". Perhaps this is a BMX team?
masters pro teams?
Thats already happened:
http://www.paaprocycling.com/about.htm
I've also writeen to Cycling News and Velonews but they don't seem to care.
But I still want to know this:
1. Does lying to sponsors promote you, your team, and the sport of cycling is a professional manner?
2. Will these "professional" racerss forgo racing in the Elite national championships and other races that are only for amateurs?
The main thing in all of this that we all have to keep in mind is the guys on the team, the riders themselves. I actually applaud the fact that this team (or any team for that matter whether it is a junior or cat 4 or masters team) was able to raise funds for their riders to race. I applaud the fact that they seem to be be providing some great resources to their riders (health insurance, housing!). They quite possibly are doing a better job at providing for the guys on the team and are conducting themselves in a more "professional" manner than many of the UCI registered Continental teams in the US.
I don't have a problem if the individuals who run the team and secured the sponsorship called the team "Professional Development" or even used the phrase "Pro-Am" when talking with companies that don't know much about cycling (because after all, if the riders really want to make the jump, they have to live, eat, breath and train like a pro and most of the races they will do will be against pros and most companies don't know the difference unless you really spell it out for them and most people understand Pro-Am).
My whole point was the mis-representation of calling the team a professional team with no sort of "asterik" especially in a press release to one of the main sources of bike racing news. Regardless of the good intentions of the team, regardless of what they (or anyone) are using as their definition of "professional", there are guidelines set out by the governing body of the sport and it is disrespectful to the teams that have set aside the resources and gone through the process of registering with the governing body as a continental, professional continental or pro-tour team to misreperesent yourself as a professional team.
Here's the skinny guys. I'm not in the habit of posting on blogs- ever. I contact individuals personally whose perceptions/opinions I don't agree with. All of you could have contacted me personally. I openly publish my cell and email in every article I write for ROAD. You could have also gone to the website and found my contact info. I do this so that public forums like this do not spiral out of control- like they have.
I will try and go through each posting and offer my side.
1st Posting: The real lier's are those Professional teams that go to corporate sponsors and say they are building a pro team. If companies knew that their logo was plastered all over 12 young guys riding around at 30mph in Lycra with 150 other guys and metal barricades with no health insurance, I'd say most companies would pull the plug. Instead of taking care of the riders, these teams take care of the UCI's pockets. Now that's a real injustice.
Posting 2: We don't have sponsors. We have supporters, b/c we are a 501 C-3 Charitable Organization. Our Supporters are more interested in the giveback we do with youth. So, if you call again, ask for Melina (our marketing contact)and tell her your qualm. Also, let her know that our Tuesday Night youth cycling development program was a huge success. I would also suggest calling some of the corporate sponsors of podunk UCI-Registered Professional Continental teams and tell them the athletes they are putting money towards live like refugees. If you are from Richmond, why would you try and sabotage an organization who is trying to enrich the community you live in. Please remember, we exist as a way to to support Richmond.
Post 3: You're right. I take the lucrative amounts that I get and sup up my 1988 Subaru DL 2wd station wagon. I pocketed a good chunk for spinner hub-caps. You caught me. Oh, and the floor? Na, my riders are forced to sleep in the back of the aforementioned station wagon. They play rock/paper/scissors to see who has to sleep on the roof. Meanwhile I stay in the mansion and occasionally, I'll throw a stale loaf of bread outside and watch them mull each other over a slice. We're a non-profit stupid. I have to produce receipts for everything to my Board of Directors and the IRS. I actually loose money doing this you idiot. Sorry to stoop to the level of name calling, but you are acting as if you know me. You obviously have no idea.
Post 4: I'm having a hard time deciphering the Pulp Fiction like dialog here. Too much slurping and smacking. Not sure how to respond here. Ideas? Note: Even back in 1977 it was peloton (sp?)
Post 5: Here's the scoop: My riders have paid housing, health insurance, full race & travel expenses, food expenses, all equipment taken care of, full casual wear, full medical staff, legal representation, mechanic, paid coaching, and logistics coordinator to book flights/hotels/registration
Look up the word professional in the Webster-Merriam Dictionary and it states: (those) participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs. When I described in full detail what my riders would receive to our financial supporters, Board of Directors, and staff, they wouldn't expect me to label it anything but professional. We will most likely take part in the Elite Championships. This was the one snafu that I have had to wrap my mind around. This is actually a great point.
Look guys, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the sport and for focusing energy towards being crusaders. Fact is though, why do I want to support the UCI's bank account, when they have no interest in looking after the support of Continental Pro riders. As long as a team strokes them a check, they don't care. Any team can go "Pro," but not every team operates as "Pro."
I'd much rather that money go towards the riders- that's who matters here. They conduct themselves like professionals because they are treated like such. The UCI doesn't realize that they exist only because there are riders (look at the ASO/UCI debate). If the UCI mandated health insurance and minimum salaries for Continental riders, I'd have no problems. But, they don't, and so I've established internal controls to do so. In the process, I've also established a model to run a team in a professional manner within the confines of a small budget. Most teams who had the budget I have to work with would apply to the UCI for pro status, and in the process, do a disservice to the riders they should be protecting. Team Inferno Pro Racing is doing the exact same thing, and I dare anyone to question the professionalism of that program.
Some of you are supporting the guidelines of an organization (UCI)as a governing body. Well, their government sucks- especially towards bottom feeder pro teams. If our budget ever allows, and if our Board of Directors sees worthwhile, we may register one day with the UCI- but only if it doesn't tarnish support towards our riders. I don't want to be a registered UCI-Professional team, and then have my riders living like vagabonds.
Finally, please have the brass to contact me personally with your qualms. Posting anonymously on a public forum is a cop out.
Thanks,
Craig Dodson
My Cell: 410.206.3935
craig@richmondprocylcing.com
dodsoncraig@hotmail.com
So there you have it. I applaud Mr. Dodson for taking the time to give a response. I actually agree with some of what he has said especially in regard to the UCI. It is obvious that the current framework laid out by our sport's governing body has it's problems (anyone want to talk about the age requirements on pro teams resulting in "ghost riders" to fill the rosters). I especially agree with his comment that "Any team can go "Pro," but not every team operates as "Pro."
I know this for a fact as I was a licensed UCI Director Sportif for a UCI Division 3 team (as it was called then) in 2003. Unfortunately the owner of the team had no idea what he was doing and this team was far from operating at a pro level. The riders did have housing by the middle of the year paid for but they spent most of their time in host housing on floors and couches and were sent all over to races without enough support (I was the only paid staff at the races, wives, girlfriends and friends were the other "staff"). The bottom line was that a lot of young promising riders had their careers stunted and even ended by a program that did them a diservice. I was removed from my duties following the Philly races after more than a few disagreements with the owner on how the team should be run and how the riders were being driven into the ground (when he realized that he needed someone with a UCI license to do support at San Francisco he had the balls to ask me back, I accepted because the ones who would have suffered, again, would be the riders).
So, best of luck to Mr. Dodson and his team. I hope you really are able to develop the next crop of talent here in the US.
BTW: I think Inferno is actually called Inferno Racing Elite Cycling Team "filling the void between the elite amateur and professional ranks".
That's all I got. PNW Buckeye...out.
http://www.infernoracing.org/teams/team_af.html
Team Inferno Pro Cycling 2008
Oh "snap".
I am corrected.
Reaons or no reason the fact reamains that he did not file as a PRO team. Therefore he does not have the right to use the word PRO in describing his team. He could say professionally run perhaps.
It is these “we are pro lies” that hurt sponsorship accross the board. There is a cat 3 team in the south that told a car company’s national marketing head they were pro and got money. Now when a real Pro team call they do not get those dollars to properly take care of their riders. What happens when the car company finds out. They think all teams are liars and the sport loses sponsor.
Also just because Craig say his riders get this and that does that make it true? Did they get that last year? This year he will have to prove it being a 501c3.
Craig go on you for having a team. Bad on you for using the word PRO when you should not. You have violated the rules of the UCI. Just because you have a good deal does not mean You are PRO no matter how you rationalize it. The fact that you are using the word when you should not means to me that you are not PRO.
I respect your reply Mr Dodson. However... this still does not make you a pro team. Whether you are more Professional than other real UCI Pro teams may be up for debate. However you not a Pro team accoriding to the rules. So why did you feel the need to call yourself one. Do you really think that dosen't defraud your bike industry sponsors? Why not just take your great roster and race and leave the words pro out and let your legs do the talking.
Also, as another user posted. Will your riders not race elite nationals?
I think the problem is that a large quanity of team are doing this. Even Pro development has gone way beyond. It you team is 40 years old you are not pro development. If you do masters only you are not elite. This comes down to the sports I me attidude. We have riders getting full rides for 10-25 races a year. There is no incentive to improve or get better. There is also no leadership from the governing bodies to put the breaks.
If an amateur gets a salary of $30K a year, and a UCI-registered "Pro" gets $OK a year, who is the professional? You guys are arguing over an adjective. An adjective. Arguments over vocabulary is for playing Scrabble. Argue over principle.
My girlfriend has raced professionally for 3 years now. She's been on Lipton, Aaron's Pro Cycling, and now the Tibco Pro Cycling team- who just won the TOC crit. She receives a good salary, all equipment, mechanic, medical, lodging/travel etc., and a firm gripped masseuse to rub her legs down after races. What does her license say: Cat 1.
Reply to post:
The name of the team actually is Richmond Professionally Run Cycling Team, but I choose to chop it down to Richmond Pro Cycling so it would fit on our licenses.
Reply to post:
I think it's really bad on Pro teams for using the word Pro, and then treating the riders like a poor fraternity (8guys to a hotel room)during a week long stage race.
Reply to post:
Did I provide this for my riders last year? Every year for the past 3 years Continental Pro teams try to poach my riders. Not one rider has left in 3 years for another team. Why do you think that is? As far as proving what we supply, please send your address, and I'd be more than happy to produce receipts- which are open file for public viewing anyway.
Reply to post:
I'm assuming Inferno Pro Cycling is also under attack here, and so my only rebuttal to our programs being different from the cat III team mentioned, is that our programs have been recognized by top race promoters as Pro-worthy, as both of our programs have gone on to secure U.S. Pro-Tour invites as of late. We've made selection into prestigious invites, produced at the national level, and had a slew of international success. The other difference, is that our riders do this for a living- making it their profession- making them professional- an adjective often truncated to pro.
It's not a hard decision for me. I have X-amount of money to work with. Ok, I give X-amount to the UCI, get to be called PRO on their website, but when my rider gets hurt at race he's in debt for the next 20 years of his life because he or the team couldn't afford health insurance. Or, I can put the money towards my riders, and then sleep at night knowing that if they get hurt, they can get fixed. Which one sounds like more of a responsible decision? Which one sounds more professional? This same scenario plays out from the ground up: Food, equipment, travel, lodging, etc. etc. Being professional is laying down the proper foundation, then building upon it. Too often in the U.S., teams put build from the top down.
I'm new to this blogging thing- do you guys use names? The problem with offering an opinion without identity, is that the opinion looses its backbone. C'mon, if you're taking the time to write, put your stamp of approval on it.
Craig Dodson
This is crazy. How can you claim to give your riders insurance. As an agent I call BS right now. 1)To provide insurance you must have employees. $100.00 bucks says you have independent contractors. 2)If for some reason you do have employees the bike race injurys are covered by workmans comp not primary health insurance. There is no way a small team can pay for workmans comp for the riders. Pro athlets are the highest class of workman's comp and cost the same as fireman to cover.
This is a total lie!!! Maybe craig is refering to the USAC insurance that every rider has while racing?? If they have private insurance, then it wasn't obtained legally, as he would have had to lie about the true profession of the riders.
I dont understand. You say we are talking about a descriptive word "pro"... but it doesn't matter how you argue it. The team is amatuer.... I really want to know. Will you race elite national championships? That will give us the answer we need to end this discussion.
Bottom line. You have to look at intent. This "pro" tag was clearly used to defraud by representing an non-pro team as a pro team. You can argue till you are blue in the face but that doesn't make it true. I really hope they (And all other teams) will consider changing the name.
agreed!! Well said!
"This is crazy. How can you claim to give your riders insurance. As an agent I call BS right now."
couldn't he just pay for their private insurance? They sign up, he writes a check to the insurance co. or to the riders and they pay the bill. It must be possible. There is also extra USAC coverage that covers you anytime you're on your bike. He could just pay for that no? But I'm not an agent...
Yes, he could give them money to pay for private insurance that they buy on their own. But they wouldn't be getting insurance as a cyclist. There is also a big diffrence between providing and paying for insurance. The main diffrence comes from elgibility. Not everyone can just go get a policy at a reasonable rate. Where as a group policy doesn't descriminate because you are obeise, a smoker, etc. Plus there are only 2 companies to my knowledge that will insure professional athletes in contact sports.
They don't need "insurance as a cyclist" because they're not pro cyclists, so they can say they do whatever...nothing at all, for example. Then they crashed on their bike. So what?
If they're not pro, they aren't listing cycling as a job. Just like any amateur.
Am I wrong?
The issue is if they get a 1099 or not. If they get a 1099 then cycling is their job. Now they can be covered under insurance they must be under workmans comp. So if they are "covered" the insurance company has been lied too. Or Craig will find out "his guys" are not as covered as he thinks. So unless he is paying SS and FICA his guys are not employees. Then his guys need to get a contractors policy which is more expensive.
The next question is whether their insurance is real medical or accident policy. Are they covered for all check up or just for er visits.
One last point. Every cyclist that races has insurance through the USCF. It is not the best but it is some coverage. The deductable is high but you are covered.
I think that Snow Valley PRO racing was one of the best run team in history. Oh wait, It was just Snow Valley. They did not need the PRO word to make them seem like more. They were the real deal. What about Fordifruita, or ATT Broadmark Capitol? Right all Professional run teams but amature and did not lie about their status. They went out and kicked pro tail and earned respect.
This year the team's founder and manager/athlete Craig Dodson decided to make the leap to professional status and make Richmond its hometown.
This is the kind of statement that people are calling you out on Craig. You may get paid but according to the rules that does not make you PRO. No matter how good you are. I think you have gone beyond using the name. It appears that you are trying to create an impression. That aside good luck on your season.
If an amateur gets a salary of $30K a year, and a UCI-registered "Pro" gets $OK a year, who is the professional? You guys are arguing over an adjective. An adjective. Arguments over vocabulary is for playing Scrabble. Argue over principle.
Are you saying that you are paying your rider $30,000 a piece? That is $210,000 before anything. You would need $60,000 or more to complete the NRC unless you drove every where but that would still put you in the $40,000 range. Then you are claiming insurance that is $35,000 or more. Housing would have to be in the $20,000 range unless you have them in host housing or sleeping on Richmond club people floor or something. That would not be PRO so $20,000 it is. Plus what ever you are doing with nonprofits $10,000.
So we have a budget of $365,000. You could not find the $15,000 license/salary hold in that anywhere? Something does not add up? Then what do you pay the staff? You have 5. I do not suspect that a Lawyer and a doctor are doing it for nothing.
my guess is the $30k salary was an example. It seems from other comments made that the riders aren't paid as such (or very little) but are taken care of with housing and other associated costs.
"The name of the team actually is Richmond Professionally Run Cycling Team, but I choose to chop it down to Richmond Pro Cycling so it would fit on our licenses. "
-Craig Dodson
Then why did the press release to Cycling News state: "...will be branded Richmond Pro Cycling fueled by Natures Path (RPC)" instead of stating the actual name of the team?
Man, there are a LOT of anonymous postings here. Stand up for your sport so we can call out your name while you race!
Anyways- its like this, you see...
Professional: 7) undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball. (I would say that this definition best describes a professional athlete, though because we have the UCI/USCF et al. we need some form of 'TT 1,2 or 3' branding on a racing license for "professional" status- just the way it is, deal with it)
6) making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.” (This is how I would best describe Mr. Dobson, no offense.)
Oh, and another thing: Since Mr. Dobson went on about adjectives, and because Mr. Safire isn't here, I'd like to point out that perhaps this whole debacle could've been avoided by using another word- DEVELOPMENTAL, 1)the act or process of developing; growth; progress: child development; economic development. As I see it, this is what the Richmond team is and good for them, but until I see them line up for US Pro Championships, they're not pro. Perhaps one day.
I have met Craig & he seems like a nice guy. However, this as a reason why he shouldn't use the name "Richmond Pro Cycling"
His club is a USCF club, I am sure he and his racers have UCI licenses. It is not about semantics or adjectives. It is about following the rules set forth by the governing bodies of organizations which he has chosen to join. The rules of the UCI and USCF say they are not professional cyclists (1A6. A Professional is a registered rider of a UCI Team.)
Chad
I don't know how I even stumbled over here, but this is a pretty funny discussion.
FWIW, Continental teams (formerly Div. 3) are also not "Pro" according to the UCI, "Continental Pro" (formerly- Div. 2) teams are, and I think there's only 2 of those based in the US. Therefore, every other US team should also drop the word pro from their name.
Looks like inferno has had a change of mind (perhaps they saw this blogpost). They just removed "Pro Cycling" from the header at the top of the website within the last 24 hours. Perhaps craig should follow thier lead and do the same.
Mike Phillips, Winston Salem, NC
It sounds to me like all of you are a bunch of egotistical airheads. I don't understand why you are even arguing over such an insignificant detail. The word " pro". Who really gives a shit about a word. If you yourself weren't so caught up in the fact that you are a no good washed up wanna-be pro, you wouldn't even care. Do you see any "real" pro's posting on this, or getting all hotheaded about this team. No. You know why, because they don't care. They don't feel threatend or feel like it's "unfair" that this guy is playing the "pro" card. ( and no.. I would hardly consider Joey Coddington a Pro) That team is less pro, than a good regional team.
You are all missing the point here. Have you even looked at their website to see what they are all about?
The only leverage they are trying to get by using the word "pro" is to have an impact on the children they are working with. The whole point of the organization is revolved around youth development and inner city youth outreach. While you guys are wasting your time arguing over how the team can provide health insurance, these guys are out there, not worrying about there image in the cycling world, but worried about how there image is portrayed to the kids.
Do something a little more productive with your time, and quit trying to tear town this team, who's only crime in the cycling world is that they don't put cycling first. It's about the kids you idiots.
jesus P-stach! what a fucking shit storm you started. OK, i am a PRO cyclist.I ride for a team that pays me a real salary I have health insurance. I resent that a team represents itself as a PRO team when it is not. The USCF has decided that continental teams are indeed PRO. Are there teams who are abusing this? yes,but to throw them all under the bus is a HUGE step backward for US cycling. My team's management company spends countless hours and recources on sposorship development. We line up at USPro events, and even won the the USPRO crit last August.
I am a big fan of Mr. Dodson, and his efforts to bring his team to the next level, but this conversation has gone far beyond that. Us teams use the "continental" status to save money on UCI fees. some of these teams are paying riders 100k + a year for their top guys. I guess my point is PRO is as PRO does.
Get to know your local PRO team, and decide for yourself. My guess is it wont take long to figure it out. These are the rules for US PRO teams. love it or leave it.
PNW Buckeye is a friend of mine, and yes, he ran a PRO team, and knowa what he is talking about. I know, and like Craig Dodson, and will speak to him face to face at the next time I see him at a race.
I hope this helps clear things up.
Jonny Sundt
KBS/Medifast PRO cycling team
So what we are saying here is that the only difference between Craig's team and a real "pro" team is that he didn't pay the UCI $30,000 to have a particular lable on his license. The poor UCI, I hope they don't feel scammed. It seems sad to me that the only thing people care about is a little label, and that all the other conducts of a team are thrown by the wasteside. I say we see what this team is all about, UCI fee aside.
Who is Karen?
I know Joey Coddington. That guy is a class act and very professional. He gives a lot to the sport.
Let me tell you a story about Joey Coddington. He talked with my kids for an hour after a USA crit race last year. We had gone to car after car trying to talk to someone "PRO". My kids asked if he was a PRO. He answer was no. I race with the pros but I am want is called UCI elite. He then began to just talk to them. About cycling asked them about school. He stopped what he was doing and gave my kids time. He gave them water bottles. He turned me on to the sport through my kids in one hour after a race.
He then talked with me. He told me about a JR team he runs in asheville. He told me about the underpriviledged kids he works with at the track on Thursdays.
Karen if it is about the kids I think Joey is one of the best examples in the southeast.
I apologize for using Joey as an example. Apparently there is a lot more to people than a surface image. I think we should use this as an example. We need to really investigate what people ( or teams) are all about before we go bashing them all over the internet.
http://www.ratsgetfat.blogspot.com/
i guess then i 2 am PRO!!!!, finally, it happened,
TeamBroKenEck Over 35 unDEvelopmental PRO CYCLING....
HELL I DON`T WORKZ, I GOTZ HEALF INS,I GOTZ HOUSING, FOOD, I DO PLENTY OF CHARITY WORK...i 2 am going pro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PAULY WARD IS A PRO!!!!!!!!!DAMNIT2HELL, YA`LL GET A LIFE............
I love these nasty comments. Is the cycling world so large and thriving we can afford attack each other? Can you say "Landis and Lemond"?
Hey, Mr. Chris Nelson, did you know during the press announcement of Discovery's sponsorship of Tailwind Sport's team, the president of Discovery could not pronounce Johan Bruyneel's name? So the marketing department you called did not understand UCI Pro classification? I'm sure she was fascinated by your description of the ASO vs UCI debate.
As for those anonymous writers, did a RPC guy cut you off in a crit? Show some class, or at least man up and put your name down so we can "discuss" matters face to face.
So what does pro mean? Try making a living from cycling, not a designation from an international body.
Finally, I am friends with one of the riders on the team (I am leaving his name out so you "Rant N Ravers" can have one less target), and I am stoked to hear that he is on a good team. In some ways, any press is good press, so the fact that some uptight roadies have a problem with semantics is helping Richmond Pro Cycling.
Steve Fong
GIve me a break! With the exception of Mr Sundt and a couple of others. Go ride your bikes! There are a lot of other things in this wold to worry about besides this.
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